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Where's the 'mute' button? (Read 77011 times)
Dickie Mint
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #30 - Oct 16th, 2010, 4:58pm
 
Amigo wrote on Oct 15th, 2010, 4:25pm:
I would dearly love the channel controller to sit in front of a standard TV in a standard room and actually listen to the channel output.



But that is EXACTLY what the BBC guidelines require, not perhaps the channel controller but the same intention.  i.e. Someone who has not been involved with the edit.

How can we make these bland mandarins listen?!

Richard
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Richard
 
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Amigo
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #31 - Oct 16th, 2010, 5:22pm
 
Unfortunately this is modern TV.

Control Rooms and switching centres full of large plasma displays showing a myriad of channels, but with nobody listening.
As has previously been written in this topic, when a programme is being broadcast live, there is usually a human actually monitoring it.
It would normally sound better than a
squeezed,
processed,
edited-on-headphones-by-computer
concoction

purporting to be "British Television At Its Best"

That transmission of "Saints And Scroungers" was the epitome of a good idea destroyed by the appaling sound and with content streched beyond reality.
It was simply boring.

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« Last Edit: Oct 16th, 2010, 9:37pm by Amigo »  
 
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Amigo
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #32 - Oct 16th, 2010, 9:43pm
 
Dickie Mint wrote on Oct 16th, 2010, 4:58pm:
Amigo wrote on Oct 15th, 2010, 4:25pm:
I would dearly love the channel controller to sit in front of a standard TV in a standard room and actually listen to the channel output.



But that is EXACTLY what the BBC guidelines require, not perhaps the channel controller but the same intention.  i.e. Someone who has not been involved with the edit.

How can we make these bland mandarins listen?!

Richard


By complaining. By not watching the programme.
Complain to OFCOM.
Complain to the BBC Trust.
Complain to the Independent Production Company.
Complain to the "BBC Executive" listed in the credits (if you can see them).


Any other ideas anyone?
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #33 - Mar 14th, 2011, 10:12am
 
This is taken from the Daily Telegraph:

BBC turns down the volume on Professor Brian Cox programme after viewer complaints
By Anita Singh, Showbusiness Editor 6:44AM GMT 14 Mar 2011


The BBC is re-editing its flagship science series, Wonders of the Universe, after bowing to viewer complaints about the show's incessant background music.

Profsesor Brian Cox presents the BBC Two programme but hundreds of viewers complained that his commentary was drowned out by the booming soundtrack.

As a result, the corporation has agreed to turn down the volume.

Jonathan Renouf, the show's executive producer, said: "Clearly none of us set out to make programmes where we can't hear the presenter, so if we have got that wrong then we need to do something about it. There's been enough volume of complaints [sic] about this that I think we clearly have made an error of judgment.

"So we are remixing the sound for all the films to pull down the music and effects levels during the segments where Brian is talking, and we are very hopeful that will correct any problems that the audience have had."

The viewer complaints were endorsed by Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, Master of the Queen's Music, who is waging a campaign against the insidious creep of "muzak".

Sir Peter said: "Viewers of this programme have not tuned in to listen to a musical performance. I find the whole thing dreadful. Why do serious scientists and programme-makers feel the need for such wallpaper? It really does come to something when even a science programme is being drowned out by muzak.

"We are being driven from even serious television programmes by this incessant need for background music. I remember having to turn off an otherwise fascinating David Attenborough wildlife programme because some muzak moron had decided it was a good idea to play background music to the animals' antics. It just made the whole thing ridiculous.

"When there are complaints that a scientist is being drowned out by background decibels, it just shows how far this culture has terrorised every aspect of our lives. The wonders of the universe should be seen and their science heard - not overwhelmed by a deluge of meaningless muzak."

Viewers have dubbed the programme 'Wonders of Brian Cox and his Orchestra' and likened it to a rock concert. On the BBC website, one viewer wrote: "Yet again a programme we have been looking forward to utterly ruined by music that drowns out the words. Why does the BBC think its viewers need to have every second filled with noise? We haven't got the attention span of a gnat."

Another said: "Surely it is within the bounds of 21st century technology to put this 'music' or background noise on the same basis as subtitles? In other words, like subtitles, give the viewer the option of turning it on or off."

The BBC has experimented with such 'red button' technology in the past but only on a trial basis. Other programmes to draw complaints for noisy soundtracks include Coast, The Nature of Britain and several of Sir David Attenborough's natural history series.

The Royal National Institute for the Deaf said the issue needed to be addressed. A spokesman said: "This is probably the thing that incenses our members the most. A lot of people have hearing loss in just one ear and for them it's difficult to differentiate between different sounds. Loud background music affects their ability to hear.

"We have talked to a lot of programme-makers about this and it is worst in news and factual programmes. Wonders of the Universe is so dramatic anyway, you don't really need the soundtrack. The news headlines also really irritate people - why does a serious message need dramatic music behind it?

"All broadcasters are equally guilty but public service broadcasters should have an obligation to change this."
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Dickie Mint
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #34 - Mar 14th, 2011, 2:05pm
 
Sounds like there are plenty of influential people and outfits concerned about it.  We need to find a common voice.  38 Degrees seems to be a successful petitioning website.  As a member I've suggested it as a public campaign........ well you never know!

Could this noticeboard help, or the unions - anyone!?

Richard
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Richard
 
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #35 - Mar 14th, 2011, 3:51pm
 
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #36 - Mar 15th, 2011, 8:04am
 
AT LAST!
A BBC response that is not based on the arguments that
1. You're imagining the problem
2. We've done nothing wrong
3.It's your set not us
4.You're deaf

Other producers please note..........and management....try actually LISTENING to your own broadcasting!
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #37 - Mar 15th, 2011, 7:27pm
 
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #38 - Mar 16th, 2011, 7:30am
 
And I just love the letter in next week's Radio Times!

My 38 Degrees petition is at :
http://38degrees.uservoice.com/forums/78585-campaign-suggestions/suggestions/159...   should you wish to vote for it!

Richard
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Richard
 
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Amigo
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #39 - Mar 16th, 2011, 8:24am
 
Dickie, do you mean this Radio Times item?

http://www.radiotimes.com/blogs/1212-viewers-complain-wonders-of-the-universe-lo...

Lots more adverse comments.

Good luck with your 38 Degrees petition.

Remember:-

M.I.M.E.

Music Impairs My Enjoyment.
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Dickie Mint
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #40 - Mar 16th, 2011, 4:01pm
 
No, it's a reader's letter in the magazine.  I'll scan it in at some stage!

I've read most of the bumpf now, and watched the videos.

Some quotes from various programme makers are rather sad. Like the "Self Shoot" producer/director who said "..get trained in sound.."

And the BBC2 Renaissance programme producer who said he sometimes "put some music in to liven it up"..

Richard
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Amigo
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #41 - Mar 30th, 2011, 6:47pm
 
"Ariel" features letters from various members of staff appertaining to this subject.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/12896281

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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #42 - Jun 28th, 2011, 4:47pm
 
"5 Live lets listeners control audio mix"

BBC Radio 5 Live is pioneering a new audio feature for the coverage of their Wimbledon tennis commentary this afternoon.

Listeners can download an application which allows them to vary how loud background sounds are, meaning they can reduce the volume of the crowd and even players’ grunting noises.


It isn't April 1st is it?

Source:-

http://radiotoday.co.uk/2011/06/5-live-lets-listeners-control-audio-mix/
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #43 - Jul 8th, 2011, 1:18pm
 
Latest from on-line Ariel:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/14079661


I quote:-


"The BBC has launched a research partnership with five UK universities that will focus on areas such as spatial audio and speech recognition.

The initiative will run for at least five years and benefits will be shared across the industry to boost innovations such as the online Radio Player and HD audio.

Graham Thomas, who leads BBC R&D's Production Magic section, said: 'One area we are looking at is spatial audio, which could be the next big step beyond 5.1 surround sound. This allows sounds to come from above and below, providing a truly immersive audio experience."

OK.

Please may we have some research into audibility?
I'd like to hear dialogue clearly.I do not want to be immersed in the sound- I want to hear what the actor / presenter is saying!!!

"Beyond 5.1 surround sound"?? please may I have the "0.1" bit so I can make sence of the programme?

I do not want to have music and effects all over EVERYTHING. I don't need to be told what 'mood' I'm in.
(Frustrated- in common with many other viewers- I can't use the word 'listeners' because we can no longer listen).

A classic last week was "The One Show".
Presenter:- "Listen- you can hear the birds".
Me:- "No I bl**dy can't! All I can hear is the music that some untrained idiot has laid over the live sound"

Come on, stop wasting licence-payer's fees on such bizarre research. Concentrate on making programmes that viewers and listeners can actually enjoy. If any reserch needs to be done, let BSKYB or some other wealthy organisation do it.

How about some clever software that will take the "Music and effects" track and add it to the programme 'out-of-phase' so that all we hear is the dialogue?

How about a "Red Button" option (already tried) which is ONLY the dialogue?.

If the track is there, let us have it!

There has been research- so what is the result? A memo to producers:-
"Stop actors mumbling"?
How about a memo to producers:-
Unless I can hear your dialoge you won't get paid for the programme?

Nothing arty-fa*rty, just let me hear the words, please.
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Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Reply #44 - Jul 13th, 2011, 8:35am
 
Couldn't agree more.........if funds are limited what the h**l are they doing investigating 'experience' and 'surround' and up you 'a***e' sound when we still can't hear what people are saying. Apparently this was one of the Hollywood mistakes...........they actually cashed in on the savings made by dispensing with a dialogue recordist  by ignoring the dialogue track altogether leaving it full of mumbling but then 'designing' effects and music tracks  so you didn't actually need dialogue to make the trash understandable internationally, obviating the need for language versions.
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