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>> For Those Of Sound Mind >> Where's the 'mute' button?
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Message started by Administrator on Sep 16th, 2009, 11:35am

Title: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Sep 16th, 2009, 11:35am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/sep/16/uktv-yesterday-asa-loud-ads


"Adverts during Catherine Cookson drama on digital channel once called UKTV History four decibels louder than show".


Well, we always thought they were, didn't we?

They used  a "subjective loudness meter"....
Does anyone listen to the output nowadays?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Sep 28th, 2009, 5:35pm

Ah, but the "loudness meter" I imagine is the new one the EBU have been working on for years, and is designed to more critically measure the level.
It is a far better device to use when is there is no one listening.  And I'm afraid in today's TV age, whilst there are plenty of marketers and managers there are precious few who bother about getting it right for the viewer!
Maybe Sir John Tusa's letter will prompt the BBC, at least, to start thinking of the viewer (and listener.

Just think, proper sound levels, no shakycam, no dogs, no film effect.......

If only!

Richard Taylor

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 28th, 2009, 6:09pm

... and no background music.....

The most irritating thing? Every scene change there is a new piece of music, which is often 'dipped' within a few seconds. Why bother with it?

It's out of context, adds nothing and makes the important sound hard to hear. >:(



Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by caro on Sep 29th, 2009, 10:20am

Whilst I understand the push for Dolby Digital 5.1 perhaps some consideration should be given to the many people who have some difficulty hearing speech over music or audience reaction.  There is nothing wrong with most mixes I hear, even at my great age, 65, but for those not so lucky, programmes are becoming tiresome as a mixture of deafness and brain processing slow-down take effect.
On many shows it would not be that difficult to create a mono feed of the dialogue; I'm not suggesting a carefully crafted second mix, just a feed of the dialogue that makes between 4 and 6 on the PPM.
I would welcome any suggestion that would offer a method of transmission, without marring the enjoyment of the surround-sound HD-ready, gold plated phono-plug people.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 29th, 2009, 1:28pm

There was an experiment with (I think) a NHU production, when they had a "Red Button" facility which changed the selected sound track to "narration only" I believe.

I do think that in this age of digital technology and Dolby 5.1 sound, it must be possible to broadcast an option of "Centre narriation" only on an audio channel so those that detest "over (sound) production" can actually HEAR the programme!


I say again... "Is there anyone out there ACTUALLY listening" (on decent monitoring speakers and not cheap headphones in front of a computer)?

Oh, and by the way.. remember we don't all live in a perfect acoustic environment.

Title: Turn the music off and let me hear the 'sound'!
Post by Amigo on Oct 8th, 2009, 9:22pm

In the latest issue of "Prospero" there is the following letter:-

Control freaks.

There is no such thing as silence. The whole world is a soundscape, which is why we have ears in the first place.

Unfortunately the majority of those in control of what goes onto soundtracks live with their ears plugged directly to their MP3 players, so they have never grasped this truth. They believe that life needs a musical accompaniment. Hence the incompetent imposition of music that destroys the finished programme.

Well, that's the charitable view. The other one is that they are unbridled control freaks, determined to make us listen to what we would never wish to hear.
You choose.

Andy Bryant


Thank you, Mr. Bryant.

I don't need to be told that a scene has changed, so please, producers, don't play (yet) more music. I don't need the pollution. I just want to hear what's going on!!!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by F.M. on Jan 27th, 2010, 4:17pm

Hello I'm new here.
I worked in London for a while but mostly in Scotland.
At one stage in my career I used to tech review programmes and package presentation trails. In the early 90's TV continuity asked if we could boost the audio on their trailers by about 6dB over what was considered to be the norm.
We put up some resistence at grass roots level but ultimately failed they remain loud to this day..
When I watch TV and the sound is too loud on either the beeb or other channels it only serves to prompt me to switch over or switch off!
Conclusion: It doesn't work!! ::)  

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by John on Jan 27th, 2010, 8:29pm

It certainly doesn't!

John

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Feb 17th, 2010, 8:45am

Sherlock Holmes TV ads 'too loud'

"Eight advertisements shown during an episode of Sherlock Holmes were so loud that they breached regulations, the industry watchdog has ruled.

The Advertising Standards Authority ruled that the slots on digital channel ITV3 were "excessively strident".

But it said complaints about noisy advertisements have gone down since rules were tightened two years ago.

ITV3 said the series was made in the 1980s and had many silent pauses so the commercials seemed louder."




"Seemed Louder" and "Many Silent pauses".

Perhaps that's why we liked them! We weren't bombarded by over-produced noise!
Let the pictures tell the story- we don't need a 'sting' of music every time there is a change of mood, neither do we need 'noise' all the time.

Please producers, and 'new-wave' audio technicians, leave well alone- and where there is real sound ...

leave it there and don't cover it up!


The article went on to say....

" In the US, the House of Representatives recently passed a bill to curb loud advertisements.  "


Anyone know an MP?
Source:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8519231.stm

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Feb 19th, 2010, 10:26am

The Daily Mail has joined in the fray with Richard Littlejohn's point of view.

About half way through the article...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1252133/Man-pedaloes-chaps-save-Falklands.html


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Feb 26th, 2010, 5:29am

It's a measure of the problem that we have had to change our remote control twice in the past four years because the mute button has failed due to over-use! The irritating thing about the whole sound shambles is that Managements of all the broadcasting providers are in denial that there is a problem. Don't they listen/view at home too?.....or do  they have only preview discs of progrmmes to watch?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Feb 28th, 2010, 10:47am

The BBC, for a start, does have a code of practice for TV programmes sound.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/advice/viewerswithhearingloss/index.shtml

and, in detail :-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/advice/viewerswithhearingloss/information.shtml

It, amongst others, says that someone who hasn't heard the final mix before should listen to it.

I particularly like :- "One in seven of the population are deaf or hard of hearing.  More than 50% of the over 50s suffer from some degree of hearing loss."  That means there's lots of us.

In other forums I frequently suggest that more viewers should complain.  And if the complaint gets the standard reply, do a Freedom of Information Act request asking what monitoring was done of the sound to check compliance with the code of practice.

Something else I saw suggested was to email the producer with a link to the code of practice!

EDIT:: The documents produced by the agency regulating ads are interesting:
http://www.cap.org.uk/CAP-and-BCAP-Consultations/Closed-consultations/BCAP-consultation-on-sound-levels-of-television-advertisements.aspx

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Feb 28th, 2010, 12:26pm

I like this bit from the above pdf:-

6.9 Sound levels in advertisements

Advertisements must not be excessively noisy or strident. The maximum subjective loudness of advertisements must be consistent and in line with the maximum loudness of programmes and junction material.

Broadcasters must endeavour to minimise the annoyance that perceived imbalances could cause, with the aim that the audience need not adjust the volume of their television sets during programme breaks.  For editorial reasons, however, commercial breaks sometimes occur during especially quiet parts of a programme, with the result that advertisements at normally acceptable levels seem loud in comparison.

Measurement and balancing of subjective loudness levels should  
preferably be carried out using a loudness-level meter, ideally conforming to ITU recommendations (See note 1).  If a peak-reading meter (See note 2) is used instead, the maximum level of the advertisements must be at least 6dB less than the maximum  
level of the programmes (See note 3) to take account of the limited dynamic range exhibited by most advertisements.

Notes:
(1) The relevant ITU recommendations are ITU-R BS1770 Algorithms to measure audio programme loudness and true-peak audio level and ITU-R BS1771 Requirements for loudness and true-peak indicating meters.

(2) Peak-reading meters should be a PPM Type IIa as specified in BS6840: Part 10, Programme Level Meters.

(3) Normal convention for analogue audio is that the peak sound level of programmes is set to be no higher than +8dBm, which corresponds to ‘6’  on a peak-reading meter. The peak sound level of advertisements should therefore be limited to +2dBm or ‘4.5’ on a peak-reading meter. Note: +8dBm corresponds to a digital audio level of -10dB relative to digital clipping level. ITU-R BS.645 and EBU recommendation R68-2000 describe how analogue audio levels should be translated into digital levels.



So, that's OK then. All sorted. Everyone's paying attention.......

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Mar 1st, 2010, 9:24pm

Dickie Mints quotes from the BBC guidelines on audio control do not encompass the fact that many programmes are now made by outside contractors who do not .for example,have a 'mono' monitor or even any technical facilities above that of a computer in an office!.....and certainly have never been subject to any guidelines other than 'do it quickly and do it cheaply'.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 2nd, 2010, 7:04pm

Ah! But!
The intro page for the Editorial Policy :-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/editorialguidelines/

says:
"The BBC Editorial Guidelines outline the standards the BBC expects of all BBC content on TV, radio and online.
They are designed for everyone who makes content for the BBC, to help them deal with difficult editorial decisions."

(my emboldening)

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Jul 21st, 2010, 3:48pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/issue/2008/06/080626_issue_background_sound.shtml

Updated 6th July 2010.

For interest.
Background sound

The use of background music or sound in programmes is often too intrusive and irritating.

We appreciate that some viewers and listeners are irritated by music or background noise in programmes. Some find noise makes it difficult to hear dialogue, while music may be considered badly chosen or even unnecessary. Naturally we regret this whenever it causes annoyance or frustration.

It is difficult to strike the right balance between differing opinions on acceptable levels of noise and music. Music in particular is partly a subjective matter in which personal taste plays a large part. It is added to programmes for many reasons and can be vital to underpinning moods and feelings, adding dimensions to a programme or conveying emotion. It has many applications in programme making.

Programmes can often sound different in the editing suite compared with being viewed on an ordinary television set. And although producers can control these effects within the programmes they make themselves, other programmes are bought in and there is no straightforward way to vary background sound levels before broadcast.

Many televisions now have options whereby audio settings can be changed to a personal preference setting, or amended to suit the type of programme being viewed. There is usually a default setting for "music" or "speech" meaning that viewers may be able to adjust their television's sound to make speech clearer. Similarly, viewers with surround sound systems may be able to clarify speech by increasing the volume on the centre (dialogue) speaker whilst decreasing the volume on the surrounding channels (music and effects).

Nevertheless, the BBC already has detailed guidance for producers to assist them in their decision-making when it comes to the audibility of a programme. This guidance has been devised in consultation with RNID and the National Deaf Children's Society and is available to all BBC staff through the BBC's intranet. The BBC is also undertaking a research project about television intelligibility which goes beyond investigating the problems with background music. This is because viewers have identified a number of issues, apart from music, that can impact on their ability to understand what is being said. The BBC is collaborating with several organisations, including RNID, who are conducting their own research into this issue. The BBC and RNID will coordinate the research and share the findings.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Jul 25th, 2010, 11:14am

We're imagining all this problem then..........the official BBC answer is that we're all deaf or have faulty TVs.
So how is is that there's no trouble with old black and white films or indeed anything recorded by the BBC before the mid 90s?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Jul 27th, 2010, 11:26am

Quote :
"The BBC is also undertaking a research project about television intelligibility which goes beyond investigating the problems with background music. This is because viewers have identified a number of issues, apart from music, that can impact on their ability to understand what is being said. The BBC is collaborating with several organisations, including RNID, who are conducting their own research into this issue. ....  "

How we can take part?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Aug 1st, 2010, 10:05pm

Dickie asked..
"How we can take part?"

Perhaps we should start a campaign, along the lines of:-

"Music Interupts My Enjoyment".  (MIME).

"The One Show", "Countryfile" are prime examples of BBC TV programmes that use music everywhere..

Every change of scene, every start of a new story HAS (it seems it's mandatory) to have more music laid over the original sound, the original voices, or just everywhere.

Mood Music?  ;D

I don't need to be TOLD that the scene has changed.

Up with real FX and voices, down with music!

Music in its own right is fine, but it simply isn't necessary 95% of the time in this sort of 'factual' programme.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Aug 3rd, 2010, 3:56pm

Re the amended BBC reply.....
...'programmes sometimes sound different in the editing suite to a domestic TV'............
.........so why not do what we had to do.........switch the editing suite speakers to an approximation of a domestic TV and try it before you commit to the final mix!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Aug 3rd, 2010, 4:18pm

"Sometimes"??

"Sometimes"???

It will ALWAYS sound different!

In my control rooms we had a "Degrade" button which simulated the 'domestic listening environment".

When I mixed programmes I used "The Degrade" button frquently.

Get rid of unnecessary music, keep the voices clear, and (dear sound mixers) be professional and stand up to ignorant producers and editors!
You know your trade.


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Aug 4th, 2010, 9:02am

Well said Amigo.............if only ............if only.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Aug 4th, 2010, 12:41pm

Where we live (Spain) most of the Digital Terrestrial channels broadcast four channels of sound.

For example, if TVE is showing a Hollywood Blockbuster, or Tele Cinco showing a made-for-TV movie, generally, they will have two audio options:-

1 Spanish (dubbed)
2 Version Original.

Is there no way that UK Digital TV could have two pairs of audio channels?

1 "Main Track only", carrying only clean voices, narration and reasonable FX.
2 "Messed-about track" with all frills, music, and general over-produced audio.

Just an idea.

Support "MIME"-

Music
Interrrupts
My
Enjoyment


You know it makes sense!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Aug 5th, 2010, 5:17pm

When the BBC tried that as an experiment using the Red button for a music free David Attenborough programme it was too popular.....

Unfortunately there isn't the bitrate budget to allow for two "full bandwidth" stereo sound channels.

Better to push for compliance with the BBC Code of Practice, which most indie and some BBC producers are either ignorant of or ignore.

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Aug 7th, 2010, 9:12am

It was the "Attenborough" experiment that I was referring to.

For those who have hearing problems "Stereo" is probably academic.

"Full Bandwidth"? Sometimes this is the last thing the elderly and those with hearing problems desire!!
Booming 'bass', distorting 'treble'?

Clarity of words is far more important.

If a quality script is inaudible due to music, FX and (I hate to say it) muffled microphones, the rest of the programme may as well not exist.
"What plot? All I could see were moving people. I couldn't hear a word they were saying".

There is the "AD" (Audio Description) facility. Perhaps this could carry a central, mono, narrow-bandwidth, voice-track only?

Wishful thinking.
I know what my elderly relatives need.
Dolby 5.1 certainly ISN'T on their wish-list. Nothing wrong with progress....
but (and t's a BIG 'but') don't forget the basics. ;)

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by reithian on Aug 23rd, 2010, 11:59am

I have to say that this is a relatively new problem that started with the removal of the continuity suites and was made worse by the introduction of multi skilling (a practice where the monkey grinds the organ as well )

Those who have had experience of the old commercial channels are well aware of the battles between the channels and the advert producers, where over compression and excessive eq with the use of all sorts of outboard equipment was used to enhance the perceived sound levels and in many cases the ads were peaked as much as 4db below prog.

The modern problem is more associated with poor and unskilfull working practices where original sound to broadcast sound will not include any trained sound technicians in the process.

Post production is in a lot of instances confined to the edit suite only and dubbing in all but the largest productions limited to the adding of background music and a few spot effects.

Modern digital sound processing is cheap and easily accessed but the skills to make judgements about how to engineer a final sound track are not.

When one watches a live to air programme using a proper sound crew the results are excellent voices are clear and the balance between music items and speech seamless but when it comes to multi skilled contributions whether live or recorded the same cannot be said.

I suppose it comes down to the old maxim "what you take out depends on what you put in"

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Aug 24th, 2010, 7:58am

The fault lies with the channel controler.
THEY are in charge. They can say 'Not good enough'.


Do they ever actually LISTEN to their output?

There was a sequence transmitted a few nights ago when the presenter was diving, and the voice was almost inaudible BEFORE they added unnecessary music over the top of the voice. Once the music appeared, I switched over to a different channel, one where I could hear what was being said.

Do we really need these irritating musical interludes during programmes that achieve nothing except get in the way of actually hearing the programme?

It's the lazy way of making programmes, "hurry hurry" music and a twitchy zoom.

Message to producers:- I am not stupid, I do not need to be told a scene has changed, left alone without interuptions I can actually tell when something has happened.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by reithian on Aug 24th, 2010, 9:27am


Amigo wrote on Aug 24th, 2010, 7:58am:
The fault lies with the channel controler.
THEY are in charge. They can say 'Not good enough'.


Do they ever actually LISTEN to their output?

There was a sequence transmitted a few nights ago when the presenter was diving, and the voice was almost inaudible BEFORE they added unnecessary music over the top of the voice. Once the music appeared, I switched over to a different channel, one where I could hear what was being said.

Do we really need these irritating musical interludes during programmes that achieve nothing except get in the way of actually hearing the programme?

It's the lazy way of making programmes, "hurry hurry" music and a twitchy zoom.

Message to producers:- I am not stupid, I do not need to be told a scene has changed, left alone without interuptions I can actually tell when something has happened.



It's called a factory process, or one size fits all, or it worked the last time, or thats how we always do it.

In other words nobody considers it as important enough to actually think about it.

The production process has become a production line and the process has been simplified to make it cheap and easy to do.

With so many suppliers of programmes the process of maintaing technical standards has fallen by the wayside.

Although all Broadcasters have a set of technical standards no one is maintaining them because to do so would involve extra expenditure and I believe they have made the decision to just ride out the small but well informed critisism in the believe,  that if they ignore it the problem will go away and sadly they are probably right

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Oct 15th, 2010, 4:20pm

From a complaint I made about "Saints & Scroungers" where the background music was the same level as the commentary and very strident.

"This programme was originally shown as a 45 minute episode in the morning but for an evening broadcast we had to cut it down to 30 minutes. Once shortened the music may have seemed more noticeable, however it did pass all the relevant checks which meant the music was within the accepted levels. "

"There is a wider BBC project on background music which has included working with the Royal National Institute for Deaf People (RNID) and holding sessions for production staff to boost awareness of background sound issues."

"We believe the best way forward is to make sure producers are aware of background sound issues. We're currently editing series 2 of 'Saints and Scroungers' and can assure you that we're taking your complaint very seriously. We will use music more sparingly and we're looking at the style of music we use which has quite a strong bass line to see if other styles would be less obtrusive."

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Oct 15th, 2010, 5:26pm

I complained in exactly the same manner about exactly the same programme.

I am waiting for exactly the same reply.


"... within accepted levels"......

i.e.  as nothing "'Peaked' 8" no automatic alarms were triggered. no-one would have actually

listened

to it.

I would dearly love the channel controller to sit in front of a standard TV in a standard room and actually listen to the channel output.


The programme concerned "Saints and Scroungers" was simply disgraceful. A classic example of nobody caring about quality.


The programme content (when I could hear it!) was stretched beyond belief. Valid enough, but 'thin'?

30 minutes- the programme material could have been done in ten.


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Oct 16th, 2010, 5:59pm


Amigo wrote on Oct 15th, 2010, 5:26pm:
I would dearly love the channel controller to sit in front of a standard TV in a standard room and actually listen to the channel output.


But that is EXACTLY what the BBC guidelines require, not perhaps the channel controller but the same intention.  i.e. Someone who has not been involved with the edit.

How can we make these bland mandarins listen?!

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Oct 16th, 2010, 6:23pm

Unfortunately this is modern TV.

Control Rooms and switching centres full of large plasma displays showing a myriad of channels, but with nobody listening.
As has previously been written in this topic, when a programme is being broadcast live, there is usually a human actually monitoring it.
It would normally sound better than a
squeezed,
processed,
edited-on-headphones-by-computer
concoction

purporting to be "British Television At Its Best"

That transmission of "Saints And Scroungers" was the epitome of a good idea destroyed by the appaling sound and with content streched beyond reality.
It was simply boring.


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Oct 16th, 2010, 10:44pm


Dickie Mint wrote on Oct 16th, 2010, 5:59pm:

Amigo wrote on Oct 15th, 2010, 5:26pm:
I would dearly love the channel controller to sit in front of a standard TV in a standard room and actually listen to the channel output.


But that is EXACTLY what the BBC guidelines require, not perhaps the channel controller but the same intention.  i.e. Someone who has not been involved with the edit.

How can we make these bland mandarins listen?!

Richard


By complaining. By not watching the programme.
Complain to OFCOM.
Complain to the BBC Trust.
Complain to the Independent Production Company.
Complain to the "BBC Executive" listed in the credits (if you can see them).


Any other ideas anyone?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Mar 14th, 2011, 12:13pm

This is taken from the Daily Telegraph:

BBC turns down the volume on Professor Brian Cox programme after viewer complaints
By Anita Singh, Showbusiness Editor 6:44AM GMT 14 Mar 2011


The BBC is re-editing its flagship science series, Wonders of the Universe, after bowing to viewer complaints about the show's incessant background music.

Profsesor Brian Cox presents the BBC Two programme but hundreds of viewers complained that his commentary was drowned out by the booming soundtrack.

As a result, the corporation has agreed to turn down the volume.

Jonathan Renouf, the show's executive producer, said: "Clearly none of us set out to make programmes where we can't hear the presenter, so if we have got that wrong then we need to do something about it. There's been enough volume of complaints [sic] about this that I think we clearly have made an error of judgment.

"So we are remixing the sound for all the films to pull down the music and effects levels during the segments where Brian is talking, and we are very hopeful that will correct any problems that the audience have had."

The viewer complaints were endorsed by Sir Peter Maxwell Davies, Master of the Queen's Music, who is waging a campaign against the insidious creep of "muzak".

Sir Peter said: "Viewers of this programme have not tuned in to listen to a musical performance. I find the whole thing dreadful. Why do serious scientists and programme-makers feel the need for such wallpaper? It really does come to something when even a science programme is being drowned out by muzak.

"We are being driven from even serious television programmes by this incessant need for background music. I remember having to turn off an otherwise fascinating David Attenborough wildlife programme because some muzak moron had decided it was a good idea to play background music to the animals' antics. It just made the whole thing ridiculous.

"When there are complaints that a scientist is being drowned out by background decibels, it just shows how far this culture has terrorised every aspect of our lives. The wonders of the universe should be seen and their science heard - not overwhelmed by a deluge of meaningless muzak."

Viewers have dubbed the programme 'Wonders of Brian Cox and his Orchestra' and likened it to a rock concert. On the BBC website, one viewer wrote: "Yet again a programme we have been looking forward to utterly ruined by music that drowns out the words. Why does the BBC think its viewers need to have every second filled with noise? We haven't got the attention span of a gnat."

Another said: "Surely it is within the bounds of 21st century technology to put this 'music' or background noise on the same basis as subtitles? In other words, like subtitles, give the viewer the option of turning it on or off."

The BBC has experimented with such 'red button' technology in the past but only on a trial basis. Other programmes to draw complaints for noisy soundtracks include Coast, The Nature of Britain and several of Sir David Attenborough's natural history series.

The Royal National Institute for the Deaf said the issue needed to be addressed. A spokesman said: "This is probably the thing that incenses our members the most. A lot of people have hearing loss in just one ear and for them it's difficult to differentiate between different sounds. Loud background music affects their ability to hear.

"We have talked to a lot of programme-makers about this and it is worst in news and factual programmes. Wonders of the Universe is so dramatic anyway, you don't really need the soundtrack. The news headlines also really irritate people - why does a serious message need dramatic music behind it?

"All broadcasters are equally guilty but public service broadcasters should have an obligation to change this."

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 14th, 2011, 4:06pm

Sounds like there are plenty of influential people and outfits concerned about it.  We need to find a common voice.  38 Degrees seems to be a successful petitioning website.  As a member I've suggested it as a public campaign........ well you never know!

Could this noticeboard help, or the unions - anyone!?

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Mar 14th, 2011, 5:52pm

The Daily Mail has picked the story up.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1366102/Wonders-Universe-Brian-Cox-slams-BBC-turning-volume-down.html

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Mar 15th, 2011, 10:05am

AT LAST!
A BBC response that is not based on the arguments that
1. You're imagining the problem
2. We've done nothing wrong
3.It's your set not us
4.You're deaf

Other producers please note..........and management....try actually LISTENING to your own broadcasting!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Mar 15th, 2011, 9:28pm

The Guardian is now running a blog on the subject.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2011/mar/15/tv-background-music-wonders-of-the-universe

299 comments so far.


And the BBC web-site is also featuring the item:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tv/2011/03/is-the-background-music-too-loud.shtml#dna-commentbox-text

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/12744756

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 16th, 2011, 9:31am

And I just love the letter in next week's Radio Times!

My 38 Degrees petition is at :
http://38degrees.uservoice.com/forums/78585-campaign-suggestions/suggestions/1591945-too-much-and-too-loud-background-music-in-tv-progr   should you wish to vote for it!

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Mar 16th, 2011, 10:25am

Dickie, do you mean this Radio Times item?

http://www.radiotimes.com/blogs/1212-viewers-complain-wonders-of-the-universe-loud-background-music-brian-cox/

Lots more adverse comments.

Good luck with your 38 Degrees petition.

Remember:-

M.I.M.E.

Music Impairs My Enjoyment.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 16th, 2011, 6:02pm

No, it's a reader's letter in the magazine.  I'll scan it in at some stage!

I've read most of the bumpf now, and watched the videos.

Some quotes from various programme makers are rather sad. Like the "Self Shoot" producer/director who said "..get trained in sound.."

And the BBC2 Renaissance programme producer who said he sometimes "put some music in to liven it up"..

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Mar 30th, 2011, 7:48pm

"Ariel" features letters from various members of staff appertaining to this subject.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/12896281


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Jun 28th, 2011, 5:48pm

"5 Live lets listeners control audio mix"

BBC Radio 5 Live is pioneering a new audio feature for the coverage of their Wimbledon tennis commentary this afternoon.

Listeners can download an application which allows them to vary how loud background sounds are, meaning they can reduce the volume of the crowd and even players’ grunting noises.


It isn't April 1st is it?
Source:-

http://radiotoday.co.uk/2011/06/5-live-lets-listeners-control-audio-mix/

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Jul 8th, 2011, 2:19pm

Latest from on-line Ariel:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/14079661


I quote:-


"The BBC has launched a research partnership with five UK universities that will focus on areas such as spatial audio and speech recognition.

The initiative will run for at least five years and benefits will be shared across the industry to boost innovations such as the online Radio Player and HD audio.

Graham Thomas, who leads BBC R&D's Production Magic section, said: 'One area we are looking at is spatial audio, which could be the next big step beyond 5.1 surround sound. This allows sounds to come from above and below, providing a truly immersive audio experience."

OK.

Please may we have some research into audibility?
I'd like to hear dialogue clearly.I do not want to be immersed in the sound- I want to hear what the actor / presenter is saying!!!

"Beyond 5.1 surround sound"?? please may I have the "0.1" bit so I can make sence of the programme?

I do not want to have music and effects all over EVERYTHING. I don't need to be told what 'mood' I'm in.
(Frustrated- in common with many other viewers- I can't use the word 'listeners' because we can no longer listen).

A classic last week was "The One Show".
Presenter:- "Listen- you can hear the birds".
Me:- "No I bl**dy can't! All I can hear is the music that some untrained idiot has laid over the live sound"

Come on, stop wasting licence-payer's fees on such bizarre research. Concentrate on making programmes that viewers and listeners can actually enjoy. If any reserch needs to be done, let BSKYB or some other wealthy organisation do it.

How about some clever software that will take the "Music and effects" track and add it to the programme 'out-of-phase' so that all we hear is the dialogue?

How about a "Red Button" option (already tried) which is ONLY the dialogue?.

If the track is there, let us have it!

There has been research- so what is the result? A memo to producers:-
"Stop actors mumbling"?
How about a memo to producers:-
Unless I can hear your dialoge you won't get paid for the programme?

Nothing arty-fa*rty, just let me hear the words, please.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Jul 13th, 2011, 9:36am

Couldn't agree more.........if funds are limited what the h**l are they doing investigating 'experience' and 'surround' and up you 'a***e' sound when we still can't hear what people are saying. Apparently this was one of the Hollywood mistakes...........they actually cashed in on the savings made by dispensing with a dialogue recordist  by ignoring the dialogue track altogether leaving it full of mumbling but then 'designing' effects and music tracks  so you didn't actually need dialogue to make the trash understandable internationally, obviating the need for language versions.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Aug 3rd, 2011, 9:34pm

This is from "The Guardian". By Mark Lawson.

TV matters: Orchestral overkill

A new series about urban history and architecture seems likely to encourage many viewers to join in on one of the most common topics of complaint on the Radio Times letters page and audience feedback programmes. Nicholas Crane's Town (BBC2), which reaches its second episode tonight, is another intelligent series from the presenter of Coast and Great British Journeys, but my enjoyment was lessened by the nagging feeling that the transmission was suffering interference from the Proms on BBC4.

As Crane enters Scarborough, there's a burst of Scarborough Fair in the background; when he goes into a church, sacred choral music soars. Every piece to camera and voiceover has its instrumental underlining. The programme is almost underscored. An aerial shot brings leaping strings, startling anecdotes from the past get banging brass.

The technical term for this is "giving it a bit of a lift". But Crane's sentences don't need such patronising help and it interferes with the sense of what he is saying, either because the viewer is distracted or is trying to identify the tune or – an extra irritation in over-composed programmes – trying to predict when the producer will dip the music under the words.

When I talked to Crane for Radio 4's Front Row, he was diplomatic, but expressed regret that the audience doesn't get to hear more of the natural noises of the towns, which are captured by highly skilled recordists and could be used to create a more imaginative and surprising soundtrack.

Perhaps this experiment should be attempted in Crane's next series. It is possible this debate has been hijacked by the (appropriately) noisy minority who object to documentary's orchestral trappings and that the rest of the audience finds the music a useful tool in accessing the right emotion at the right point. But, so far, the background tinklers have not made their case that factual viewing is improved by such music, so it's only right to try a few series without to see if ratings and appreciation levels plummet.

Source:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/aug/03/tv-matters-orchestral-overkill-town

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 7th, 2011, 3:51pm

If you can hear me, I'd say that there is a post in the news section regarding sound levels and new computer systems.

"Pardon?".

I said...

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Oct 21st, 2011, 8:41am

This is from the latest 'on-line' version of "Prospero", reporting on the recent "Annual visitors’ conference".

Sounds like…

........Thereafter followed one of the liveliest sessions of the conference, when Clare Sillery, Executive Producer, BBC Vision, explained what the BBC had been doing about the contentious (as recent letters pages in Prospero can attest) problem of sound levels.

She reported back on the Vision audibility project, which has been 18 months in the making and involved a number of internal and external bodies, including the RNID. The study aimed to looked at the variety of issues that give rise to viewer complaints about TV sound.

The survey comprised three elements:
• the BBC Pulse Panel (20,000 people surveyed in February and August 2010, who noted problems with audibility over a week)
• A parallel study of 500 viewers aged 65+ by VLV (Voice of the Listener and Viewer)
• An RNID study of 500 people
Clare said: ‘Twelve thousand viewers in the Pulse Panel completed the survey, giving us 290,000 responses to programmes.
‘Ninety per cent of respondents had no problems, but around eight per cent reported some level of difficulty with audibility. This
level of difficulty was repeated in the VLV survey. Most of the complaints related to background noise and accents.’

In the RNID survey, the main issue causing problems was background music, followed by noise, diction and tone.
One of the actions arising from the project has been to make executive producers responsible for the audio mix. They have to sign off the audio, and if the programme generates complaints they [the producers] have to pay for the remix out of their own budgets. Clare hoped that this would be enough of an incentive for audio to be afforded greater importance in the editing suite.


Source:-
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mypension/en/prospero_oct_2011.pdf

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Dec 13th, 2011, 10:43pm

Reuters report here that  
"U.S. communications regulators cracked down on excessively loud TV commercials on Tuesday, implementing a bill passed last year to quiet commercials to the same volume as the programs they accompany."

"Commissioner Mignon Clyburn added that the agency's [FCC] latest rulemaking will put an end to the "frightening decibel levels that resulted in considerable alarm, anger and spilt popcorn.""


Admin.

By Jasmin Melvin.
Reuters.

WASHINGTON | Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:58pm EST

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Dec 19th, 2011, 9:36pm

It still amazes me that after all this BBC bluster about 'looking into it' and publishing 'guidelines' there are still so many complaints about intrusive music in quite recently made programmes (see last weeks Sunday Times Culture managzine). Perhaps those of us who still find all this b/g music so infuriating are supposed to take the DG's advice in another place and 'go elsewhere'?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on May 15th, 2012, 9:38am

This article here includes a most apposite link here which should be made compulsory reading for all editors no matter what type of programme they work on.



Amigo

10 tips for using audio more effectively in multimedia stories
(by Casey Frechette)

Music in Multimedia: Add Sparingly, Not as a Crutch
(by Regina McCombs)

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by David Shute on Jun 24th, 2012, 10:03am

Er, are we missing the salient point? The bright young things who put so many of these capers together are products of so-called 'universities' offering 'media studies' courses, run by people who've never been in the business and never learned the grammar of television let alone sound!
DISCUSS!!
Regards to all. David Shute

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Jun 24th, 2012, 10:26am

Perhaps the "Great British Public" are now getting the service for which they are prepared to pay.

With more responsibility, zero increase in licence fee, inability to keep staff, required to sell off facilities and dispose of staff with skills and talents.... what chance does "The BBC" have?

Not what they (The GBP)  "want", just that they are more prepared to pay 'subscriptions' and / or nothing for TV.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Aug 23rd, 2012, 7:52am

From The EBU:-

In August 2010, the EBU published its Loudness Recommendation EBU R128.

It tells how broadcasters can measure and normalise audio using Loudness meters instead of Peak Meters (PPMs) only, as is common practice nowadays.

More here.




An EBU Newsletter today (23rd August) says:-


As of this week the programmes of all French-speaking national broadcasters in Belgium (RTBF, RTL-TVI and BeTV) are normalized according to EBU R 128 , the world-class Loudness Recommendation created by the EBU PLOUD Group.

RTBF is a pioneer on the loudness subject  and has been closely following the work of the EBU PLOUD group. Early tests with R 128 in mid 2011 had already convinced the broadcaster that viewer complaints could be reduced to zero.


From end of this month the main German and Austrian broadccasters will switch to R 128 too; the launch is planned during the IFA in Berlin.


The whole newsletter may be found here

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Sep 3rd, 2012, 12:10pm

The debate moves on.

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2012/9/3/further-discussion-and-debate-on-implementing-new-loudness-s.html



Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Sep 12th, 2012, 12:28pm

Canada acts:-

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/g3.htm


"........Effective September 1, 2012, Canadian broadcasters and television service providers (e.g., cable, satellite, and IPTV providers) must follow international standards[1] for measuring and controlling digital television signals, and must ensure that TV commercials are broadcast at a similar volume to programs. .........."

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:33pm

From:-
"Broadcast Engineering"

"Today, (December 13th 2012) a new law requiring television volume be at a consistent level across programming and commercials officially went into effect, although broadcasters have known about and prepared for the mandate, and potential fines, for years. The main culprit to date has been the level of locally produced commercials."  (1)



(December 19th 2012) from an American viewpoint.

"Now that the FCC is enforcing the CALM Act, which protects against excessive loudness levels of commercials and other content, broadcasters are being careful to comply or risk getting fined. There’s a sense of nervousness in the air. The Commission appears to be deadly serious about ensuring compliance, due in part to the fact that the No. 1 complaint members of congress get from their constituents regards loud commercials. It’s also worth remembering that this bill passed the Senate with unanimous approval....

Loudness measurement cannot be done with conventional meters, such as VU meters or PPM meters. It requires a proper loudness meter that is compliant to U.S. standards — not the European variants. This is a little tricky because some large vendors have mistakenly thought that the European versions are more advanced and thus better. But buyer beware." (2)




Source:- (1)  http://broadcastengineering.com/regulation/loudness-law-goes-effect
Source:- (2)  http://broadcastengineering.com/audio/calming-loudness-concerns

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:00pm

Whatever the law, and the accountants say, the only way pf properly controlling 'loudness' is using the human ear! Unfortunately they were removed from Central control areas years ago!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by JohnW on Jan 4th, 2013, 12:05am

"What was that you said? Sorry - I couldn't hear you!" http://www.ex-bbc.net/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Feb 27th, 2013, 10:44am

According to "PSN Europe".


Quantel is the latest in a growing list of video system manufacturer to integrate loudness technology into its products, supporting Nugen Audio metering on its broadcast editors


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Apr 5th, 2013, 10:20am

The latest BBC Blog regarding "loudness" may be found here.


Written by Ian Astbury (Senior Investigations Engineer), the blog goes into some detail regarding new practices.

"By shifting the emphasis towards controlling loudness rather than just audio level it’s hoped that better recordings with more natural dynamics will become the norm rather than the exception.

For broadcasters the main expectation is that the adoption of a common ‘loudness target’ will improve consistency. Programme interchange between production companies and broadcasters will benefit, leading to fewer gross loudness discrepancies for the listener.

The recommendations being adopted for loudness measurement are underpinned by a document with the snappy title ITU-R BS.1770-3 and are based on the subjective loudness of a range of typical types of programme."  



"Implementation of loudness control in the USA is now subject to legislation in the form of their Commercial Advertisement Loudness Mitigation (CALM) act. Similar legislation is also being adopted by some European countries. Guidance on how to comply can be found in EBU Recommendation R 128.

The application of Recommendation R 128 is not going to make a difference overnight, but we believe that it is a step in the right direction and are working with other broadcasters in the pursuit of a common loudness standard."  


A pdf of the I.T.U. "ITU-R BS.1770-3"  
(Algorithms to measure audio programme loudness and true-peak audio level)
document may be found here.


A little light reading for all.



Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Apr 6th, 2013, 7:39am

But will ANYBODY be actually L I S T E N I N G to the recording at the time of origination and not depending on cheap grey boxes?? :-/

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Jul 18th, 2013, 2:40pm

This is from "tvbeurope".

Robert Edwards, sound director for TV show Britain’s Got Talent was supplied with a DK-Technologies DK2 Audio and Loudness Meter by HHB Comunications. The Meter was used for the show’s final and semi-final episodes.

The Britain’s Got Talent 2013 final was one of the UK’s most-watched programmes of the year, with over 11 million viewers. Sound director Robert Edwards used the DK2 Meter to measure the live broadcast stream to check the programme's integrated LUFS level (the EBU loudness criteria). ITV maintains a dual acceptance policy for programme delivery, so programmes can be delivered with observance to the traditional +8dBm Peak level or to -23 LUFS (plus or minus 1 LUFS).

Did you watch the transmission? Were you aware of anything different?


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Aug 29th, 2013, 10:26pm

"The EBU Loudness Breakfast"...

The return of the EBU Loudness Breakfast will take place on Monday 16 September, 08.00-09.15.

"This year's EBU Loudness Breakfast reflects these trends. The session will include a review of the current state of play, including progress in adopting the standards, issues around automation and distribution, ways to maintain loudness in music production, applications for radio and the management of loudness in the cinema."


Information regarding the 2013 event as well as an update on progress may be found at this EBU web-site here.


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Administrator on Sep 19th, 2013, 9:07am

The BBC Academy has a video presentation, describing the different ways of measuring 'sound'.

The video compares a PPM with a Loudnes meter measuring in "LUFS"

The video and introduction by John Heraty, (a BBC broadcast technology trainer), may be found here.


"The 2012 Proms saw BBC audio levels being measured in a new way for the first time in 80 years. John Heraty, a BBC broadcast technology trainer, looks at what has changed in sound monitoring technology and what this means for BBC audiences.

Peak loudness was previously measured by a simple wooden box called a Peak Programme Meter (PPM). This was simple but limited in its range and ability to measure loudness, as it only had a small gap between peak signal and distortion (known as headroom). New digital transmission systems have much larger ranges, and have extra headroom engineered into them.

When we listen to the radio or watch TV, our ear averages out the different frequencies it encounters – bass, treble and mid-range – but a PPM is not capable of making this differentiation. John explains how a loudness meter measures sound more accurately, by reflecting the way the ear hears different frequencies. He also looks at the True Peak Meter, used to check that there is no clipping or distortion on the digital signal.

Another reason for improving audio monitoring is audience complaints about varying loudness across different television programmes. A lack of smooth transition between - for example - a tense, quiet crime drama and a loud, lively talent show meant viewers were turning up their volume only to be blasted with sound when one programme ended and a trailer for another began. Now all BBC programmes are mastered to conform to a consistent average loudness, so that the viewer can set the volume once and then leave the remote control alone for the rest of their viewing."

The accompanying video also has some exterior views of ETD.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by zetothebubbleman on Sep 19th, 2013, 8:45pm

"Peak loudness was previously measured by a simple wooden box called a Peak Programme Meter (PPM). This was simple but limited in its range and ability to measure loudness, as it only had a small gap between peak signal and distortion (known as headroom). New digital transmission systems have much larger ranges, and have extra headroom engineered into them."

"...simple wooden box....?" Words fail me!

This person is allegedly a trainer in broadcast technology?

I'll leave it to those more qualified to comment on audio matters to be more specific about why it's a load of **ite!!

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by double-vision on Sep 21st, 2013, 1:43pm

A coffin could also be described as a simple wooden box. Handy for burying sound quality in I suppose.
Dave

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Sep 29th, 2013, 7:00pm

Had a "Senior Technologist" on Points of View commenting on a viewer's video insert complaining of too loud continuity breaks.  Blamed on the PPM not being able to accurately show loudness.  But the new loudness meter being phased in soon would address the problem.

Perleeeese!!  [sorry about the street talk, but it seems apt]

Continuity announcers and adverts trails deliberately use compression and hammer 6 on the PPM!  And they don't have sound staff anymore who'd duck the fader.

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 29th, 2013, 7:38pm

The 'Points Of View' item was disgraceful!
Does anyone actually listen to the output?
Is there such a thing as "Quality Monitoring"?

Ah that department "Continuity"!
With ears, eyes, a good environment and enough 'clout' to make the powers that be, pay attention.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Mike Carter on Sep 30th, 2013, 9:49am

So now it's official - a special meter needs to be built because no one at the BBC can hear when one sound level is louder than the next!! What nonsense! How about paying someone to sit there and listen to the output to ensure continuity!
But I suppose when you have to make choices between paying someone to do that and keeping your management focused.......

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 30th, 2013, 11:47am

Any volunteers?
I wonder if 'they' were to make a 'phone number available to a few selected individuals (with experience) whose opinion and judgement was respected, could ring in to RED BEE (or whoever is now responsible for 'continuity'), so that a balanced view could be logged into a system?


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Sep 30th, 2013, 12:32pm

A well respected ex member of the Pebble Mill Sound department sat on the study group that looked into sound levels.  (Can't lay my hands on the URL for it) And the report basically said things were wrong and should be corrected, by training amongst other recommendations.

Another case of loads of money spent, and then all ignored.

Trouble is we still have the mandarins in charge who think they know best.  Get rid of them, saving money at the same time!  And they could always reduce the vast marketing budget and spend some of that on more quality monitoring.  At least on BBC1 and 2.

Richard

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Sep 30th, 2013, 2:02pm

I'm sorry, but this has gone far enough.

You don't need fancy meters,
you don't need a room full of researchers,
you don't need university graduates,
you don't need (yet) another committee.

All you need is someone who can prehear the next item / programme trail / insert and then (through experience) control the fader before it's faded up!!

It's called "Continuity".

It's the way it used to be,
when humans were in charge, not 'servers', when a single human monitored a network for a long period,  in a known environment, and was able to accompany the viewer or listener so that there were no sudden sound level changes. They could help the listener enjoy the programme.

May I suggest:-
one room,
one screen,
one pair of speakers and
one telephone (to the network controller), which, when combined with a regular supply of coffee and tea and sandwiches, would drop the number of complaints of audio levels to zero.

Flashing LEDs are too late, and there's nothing wrong with a PPM when associated with a decent pair of experienced ears.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Roundabout on Oct 1st, 2013, 9:51pm

Well said Amigo! At last a job that retired staff could take on very economically in the years before they get into their wooden boxes!


Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Jan 17th, 2014, 3:47pm

Don't get your hopes up, but they've listened.
"The BBC Academy is presenting a series of events around the UK to raise awareness of loudness and audibility issues in TV sound among BBC staff, indies, freelancers and external suppliers."

YES, courses have been organised  to give broadcasters an appreciation of the problem and solutions!  And, in it's black and white!
"All UK broadcasters, including the BBC, are striving to increase audio quality for television and reduce the number of complaints from viewers about audibility and loudness.
Loudness complaints are about jumps in sound levels around programme junctions which cause viewers to adjust the volume controls on their TV remotes. In 2013, all the major UK broadcasters, through the Digital Production Partnership (DPP), introduced a common technical standard for the delivery of programmes which includes loudness regulation.
This DPP specification also demands that “dialogue should be acquired and mixed so that it is clear and easy to understand”. This is of importance to the significant proportion of viewers that suffer age-related hearing impairment.
While the use of excessive levels of background music is mainly a post-production issue, the DPP spec also acknowledges the importance of recording good dialogue on location. Furthermore, audio clarity is not just a technical problem. Many complaints relate to indistinct delivery of speech by actors, presenters and contributors, so directors also  have a role to play in ensuring that dialogue is conveyed clearly."

It's well worth a read and maybe, just maybe, there's hope for us on the horizon?

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Amigo on Jan 17th, 2014, 9:35pm

Perhaps this is a significant step in audibility.


Perhaps.


"The events will be launched by a keynote speech from Danny Cohen, director of BBC TV, who will emphasise the importance of delivering good sound
to the TV audience."  

"While the use of excessive levels of background music is mainly a post-production issue, the DPP spec also acknowledges the importance of recording good dialogue on location. Furthermore, audio clarity is not just a technical problem. Many complaints relate to indistinct delivery of speech by actors, presenters and contributors, so directors also  have a role to play in ensuring that dialogue is conveyed clearly."  

That last clip seems to cover all points....

I wonder, does anyone actually LISTEN to the final output of the main channels?

I mean listen on standard 'domestic' equipment.

Flat-screen TVs with downward-facing speakers are notorious.

Title: Re: Where's the 'mute' button?
Post by Dickie Mint on Jan 18th, 2014, 9:56pm

Well the guidelines have always said someone not connected with the edit should listen in a domestic environment........

It will take time to dribble through, and only programmes made after the courses can be criticised if they fall short, but at last the viewer has a stick to beat the programme makers with!  

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