This is transcript of Mark Byford's interview with David Frost, on Breakfast with Frost:

DAVID FROST:
When he took over as acting Director General of the BBC last week Mark Byford
said that he wanted to bring calmness, stability and leadership. No easy task as the
organisation faces perhaps one of its gravest challenges anywhere in the 77-year
history. Will three resignations and unreserved apologies satisfy the BBC’s
opponents and critics, or will there be a further price to pay? Mark Byford is here
with me now. Welcome Mark.
MARK BYFORD:
And very nice to see you.
DAVID FROST:
And vice versa. The acting Director General, but it says in the papers today that
you’re the 11-10 on favourite to become the Director General.
MARK BYFORD:
Well, to be absolutely honest David, that is the last thing that’s on my mind is
contenders for the Director General. My priority is to bring calmness to this
organisation, to bring a real sense of leadership for moving forward. Nobody in the
BBC and outside can say that it has not been a very, very turbulent week.
FEBRUARY 1st, 2004
1
BBC BREAKFAST WITH FROST
INTERVIEW:
MARK BYFORD DAVID FROST:
Absolutely.
MARK BYFORD:
For me it’s to move it forward.
DAVID FROST:

Right. One of the things that should be good news though in a way was that all
these polls say that by 3-1 or 4-1 and so on, that people after these events this week,
people trust the BBC three times as much as they trust the government. Well that’s
presumably good news, it shows that the BBC externally has not been damaged this
week.
MARK BYFORD:
Well, what is good news for the BBC is that people trust it, and that’s what I have
to think about, not about the government, I’ve got to think about the BBC and
people have great affection for the BBC, it’s the heart of national life, makes
fantastic programmes not just outside of news, you know, right across the board
whether it’s sport or comedy. But trust is the foundation of the BBC and we had a
blow this week, we’ve had to admit, you know, but rightly, that we’ve made some
mistakes in some of our journalism. But that is not any sense that the whole of our
BBC journalism is lacking in trust.
DAVID FROST:
And in terms of that, a lot of people are bewildered by the two apologies, Mark, I
mean the first one was Greg’s – mistakes which the BBC have already
acknowledged and we apologise for them and so on. And that seems to be an
apology, it is an apology. But then we read that the official spokesman features in
the Hutton Report but the official spokesman at No. 10 Downing Street said that
wasn’t enough. That this was not was Dyke said does not amount to a considered
statement by the governors and so on. So they were making it a price of peace to
have a small swinging, or as some people say a grovelling apology – that was
government pressure, according to the government spokesman.
2 MARK BYFORD:
Let me tell you what I know is the truth, you know, that I knew it during that period
as well is the Hutton Report had been published, Gavyn Davies as the chairman of
the BBC, fantastically honourable man, had resigned. Greg Dyke was offering his
statement of apology. By the time Richard Ryder the new chairman of the BBC
gave his the Director General had again resigned as well. And I think he was
making it perfectly clear, what I feel myself as well, which is the BBC had made
mistakes in its journalism in relation to the David Kelly affair. And that we wanted
to apologise for the errors that we made. If we apologised for them unequivocally
I’ll do that today for you as well. That is what I feel myself. We’ll apologise for
them. But in a context where the BBC’s journalism is of very high quality and
distinction and what we must do now is go forward in what we have as clear values
for BBC jour nalism – accuracy, fairness, objectivity, courage.
DAVID FROST:
And those are vital qualities and the important thing that you’ve just said is that it
was just, that Richard Ryder was just apologising for the errors, not apologising for
doing the report in the first place or the BBC not just apologising for being alive, as
it were. It was specifically the errors, not that the story should never have been
done at all. Done differently but…
MARK BYFORD:
I think the chairman of the BBC, and that’s why I can stand absolutely behind it,
was recognising that we made some mistakes and that we needed to apologise for
them quite clearly. And I am as well. But that does not mean that we feel that the
BBC’s journalism overall is not of the highest quality, that the staff – I mean look
at how the staff this week David, covered the story. I originally at the start of this
week thought that because Greg had been involved in the Hutton enquiry he had
charged me with looking after all the coverage and in an impartial way. That was
my task for the week. And I come out of the week feeling extremely proud about
BBC journalism. Because it was in the most rigorous of tasks, impartial,
courageous but also extremely high quality.
DAVID FROST:
3 And so you don’t regret that the story was done, you just regret that errors were
made. It was right to do the story, it was not right to make the errors.
MARK BYFORD:
It’s right to do any story where you feel confident that you’re right. But if you do
the story and there are things wrong with it and you recognise that it was wrong,
either factually or in fairness terms or whatever, on any story, I don’t mean this
particular one, my own view is apologise for it. This is an organisation owned by
the public, accountable to the public. It has hundreds of thousands of hours of
output every year. The notion that the BBC never makes mistakes – ever – it is
above it. I mean it’s rubbish. When the BBC makes mistakes it will say so, and then
it’s a stronger BBC, and frankly the audiences both in the United Kingdom and
around the word, will trust the organisation even more.
DAVID FROST:
If Andrew Gilligan had not resigned would you have sacked him?
MARK BYFORD:
What would have happened to Andrew Gilligan had he not resigned, would have
been that he’d have been part of the due process. That means that I myself with my
executive committee colleague Stephen Dando, the Director of Human Resources,
would have looked at the matter within the context of duty of care to all those
people involved. You, David, would be very upset I think, if I started to talk about
an individual employee on the BBC, and what would have happened to him, on the
airwaves here.
DAVID FROST:
Well you’ve got your survey, it’s you and the personnel director doing this enquiry
isn’t it?
MARK BYFORD:
It’s a survey, it’s a process.
DAVID FROST:
4 It means you can actually interview the person and give him his cards at the same
time, with the two of you there, you can do both parts of it.
MARK BYFORD:
But we’re not looking at it in a giving cards or anything like that. This is a very
difficult period for the BBC on a number of fronts. What I want to do with that
particular aspect of this is do it professionally, do it well, but do it as soon as we
possibly can. Because I’m absolutely aware that people are saying what’s
happening to this person, what’s happening to that person. What I want to do is say
it will be done extremely professionally, it will be led by myself with my executive
committee colleague. We’re not going to say anyt hing else until that has been
completed.
DAVID FROST:
And tell me something, Greg obviously regarded as one of his most important roles,
was to resist pressure from the government, or from a government. But for him as
the DG not to be cowed by the government. Is that an important role for you too?
MARK BYFORD:
The independence of the BBC is the absolute critical cornerstone of it, both here in
the United Kingdom and around the world. So, rather than resist pressure you could
say to protect it from any pressure, government, commercial interest, others. It’s not
just the government that puts pressure on the BBC, you know, to get each side of
the story or whatever. There’s lots of pressures put on the BBC and its journalism.
But the person at the top and the senior people all around him, and the journalists
themselves doing the job, but certainly the editor and chief, has to be a rock of
protecting the independence of the BBC. You’re looking at the person who’s been
running the World Service and the BBC’s global services over the last five years,
you know, going into Iraq with BBC services that are very trusted, recognising that
independence is the absolute critical part of the BBC that makes people trust it. I
will protect that.
DAVID FROST:
5 That’s clear. That’s clear words. Tell me something, as you saw, Gilligan departing,
but it doesn’t have to be Gilligan, there’s lots of other people who’ve said this, but,
Gilligan said apart from two or three errors or a couple of lines and so on, my story
was mostly right. Do you think it was mostly right?
MARK BYFORD:
Mostly right isn’t good enough for the BBC. We in my view are an organisation
that has a foundation stone of trust. People rightly expect very high standards of the
BBC in its journalism. Accuracy, so when we’re inaccurate we’re letting the BBC
down. Fair, that means giving all sides a fair deal within the story, and if we’re not
we’ve let the BBC down. And if we’re partial, well, people won’t trust us. That is
the whole essence of the BBC. And for me, if we’re mostly accurate, that’s not
good enough, we have to be accurate. Someone else said to me yesterday, you
know, well it was it was at 6.07 in the morning. Does it really matter that it wasn’t
at peak? The BBC has to be absolutely clear to its values and uphold them, 24
hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year, in all its output.
DAVID FROST:
Finally, the papers today, what’s your message to Greg out there in the country.
He’s joining us later. What’s your message to Greg? One paper says 58%, 2-1
people want him reinstated. What’s your message to him this morning?
MARK BYFORD:
My message to Greg is I’m feeling for him. I love Greg. Four weeks ago I’d just
been appointed his deputy and I’d worked with him for the last three, four years
since he’d been Director General. I’ve got enormous respect for Greg, thought he
was an unbelievably charismatic leader, and it must be very very difficult for any
person at the head of any organisation to have to resign. So I’m thinking for him.
What I will say to him is, I’m going to take forward the strengths in an interim role
with my team around me. I’m going to take forward the strengths that he brought to
the organisation. I’m going to be absolutely clear with the staff and the outside
world about the role of the BBC, on why we’re so critical to UK life, and I’m going
to make sure that the staff feel calm, that they feel that there’s an organisation here
that is going to move forward. And I hope Greg will think, that’s right Mark.
6 DAVID FROST:
Mark, thank you very much indeed.