Welcome, Guest. Please Login
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
  To join this Forum send an email with this exact subject line REQUEST MEMBERSHIP to bbcstaff@gmx.com telling us your connection with the BBC.
  HomeHelpSearchLogin  
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Mumble mumble (Read 18830 times)
chris west
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 93
Spain
Mumble mumble
Feb 12th, 2016, 4:34pm
 
It's that mumbling again, or is it just my pensioner's ears? Watched the first episode of Happy Valley, and lost a large amount of the dialogue. Is it to do with the recording, or is it a naturalistic throwaway style of delivery that directors seem to favour? Did the BBC listen the last time, I'm thinking of Jamaica Inn?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Trevor
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 17

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #1 - Feb 12th, 2016, 5:10pm
 
Or is it caused by the dreadful rear-facing speakers used in modern flat-screen televisions which means the top end of the audio spectrum, which is where inteligability is held, is lost? It probably sounded fine in the dubbing theatre but put high quality sound through rubbish speakers and it'll sound rubbish. Just a theory.

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dickie Mint
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 261
Solihull, West Midlands
Gender: male
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #2 - Feb 12th, 2016, 8:52pm
 
Nope.  It's the indie producer or director who thinks mumbling is in!  It's not, and it's totally against the BBC Code of Practice; which good old auntie doesn't even acknowledge now!
Proof: It was mainly Sarah Lancashire, and several people on another forum noticed it.

Richard
Back to top
 

Regards,
Richard
 
IP Logged
 
Roundabout
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 214

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #3 - Feb 13th, 2016, 8:46am
 
Of course it's really the viewers' fault isn't it. I mean if they can't be bothered to get state of the art loudspeakers and audio systems! And of course if they have to watch the increasing amount of rubbish drama featuring dysfunctional people who actually do mumble in extremis then so be it. Come on!, don't bother! Get a life and like me stop watching BBC drama and start using the TV for what it was intended...entertainment and information. We all have enough troubles in our lives at times without this stuff on TV. As long as there are big audience figures for this trash the Beeb will go in making it.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
WG
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 352
Hitchin
Gender: male
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #4 - Feb 13th, 2016, 10:28am
 
My tv sound bar is quite good(i.e. a little better than the tv speakers)-and it has three "noddy" default eq settings-speech-movie and music-but I constantly find myself changing these when watching different genres of programming--whereas I hardly ever need to change the treble/bass on my portable radio. So what's going on in telly sound dept. then?
Back to top
 

Mr Playlist
 
IP Logged
 
chris west
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 93
Spain
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #5 - Feb 13th, 2016, 2:55pm
 
Thanks for the replies, it's some comfort that it may be the source material rather than my ears.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Administrator
YaBB Administrator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3268

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #6 - Feb 14th, 2016, 4:05pm
 
Followers of this posting should also keep an ear open on this post in the 'Sound' section....



Back to top
 

The Administrator.
 
IP Logged
 
alanh
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 26

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #7 - Feb 16th, 2016, 10:16pm
 
I've just watched Ep1 of this and I couldn't agree more.  Alright I have " modern TV with flat speakers" as mentioned above but even with volume right up, so much dialogue was lost.  However when the programme finished, I was glad my "flat speakers" didn't get blown away with title music.  I can imagine the old PPM hardly moving for ages and then hitting 6s!  
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
apcwmwl
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 67

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #8 - Feb 17th, 2016, 3:11pm
 
Of course it's the production!! I couldn't understand dialogue either - but with all the adverse crits of episode 1, why didn't the beeb send it back to the production house for re-dubbing. We ex drama SS would never have let this kind of quality escape to the airwaves, and probably would have ended up with fist fights with production! Vote with your ears - avoid!!!!
Back to top
 
apcwmwl  
IP Logged
 
Dickie Mint
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 261
Solihull, West Midlands
Gender: male
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #9 - Feb 17th, 2016, 8:51pm
 
I always make a complaint referring to the Production Guidelines. The more we complain............
From this
" If a programme generates a significant number of justifiable complaints, Audience Services will ask productions to re-mix the sound at their own expense."

And for the programme makers there's a tutorial here!


Back to top
 

Regards,
Richard
 
IP Logged
 
chris west
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 93
Spain
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #10 - Feb 18th, 2016, 5:14pm
 
Thanks once again, good to have views from professionals who know what they're talking about. Interesting that every guidelines page contains the message "Sound problems are the single most consistent topic of viewer complaints", so the BBC evidently knows about it. The only inference can be that it doesn't care.I would think that at this time, the old mothership needs all the support she can get.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Russell_B
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 5

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #11 - Feb 18th, 2016, 7:23pm
 
This is a subject dear to me as someone who throughout his life has emphasised quality in all I do.
My interest in high quality sound was a major influence in my aspiration to join the BBC at a time when it was admired throughout the world for its programme quality in most areas, and its at that time, wonderful technical research, particularly into loudspeaker design. At that time there was nothing commercially available which came near the quality of BBC monitors from about '65 to the late 70s.
I left the BBC in the early 70s because shift work did not agree with my constitution, and by the end of the decade was starting to be concerned about its staff's usage of intonation, it being often inappropriate, and I had often at that time wondered if the BBC had a 'Weird intonation department'.
I am afraid that that was only the start of a downhill trend in almost all areas, and sound quality has now plummeted to the level at which it is widely denigrated on many audio sites. When I left I became a programme maker, deriving actuality and mixing and editing to final programmes.
Although now retired, and with declining hearing, I have worked on loudspeaker design since about '85, and in recent years produced my best, which I use at home in my studio.
On occasions the SQ from the BBC is so poor that I would swear that there is no energy coming from my tweeters, (above 1.8KHz that is), and very often mic, positioning is so bad that proximity effects are predominant, they masking  the presence range with excessive bass.
This problem is marked on R4's Today, BBC2 and BBC4, in the latter music often being too high in the mix, maybe only a couple of dB below the speech. I always mixed it by at least about 8 to 10 dB down.
Unfortunately the lowering of standards applies to many other aspects of the BBC, and I prefer what it was when its logo was written in Italics.
Often the mixed-in music, probably from CDs, is so obviously better quality than the added programme content, that it contrasts massively.
A well know owner of a major loudspeaker company has complained to me that the BBC no longer uses sound engineers; I do not know if this is so, but I am of the impression that the BBC uses fresh graduate trainees to make cheap programmes, and that these do not have the necessary experience to know how to produce good sound.
My own system at home is now so good that CD quality is way above all broadcast SQ. I also have a recording made by another loudspeaker manufacturer in the BBC anechoic chamber before it was demolished, and my system reproduces it extremely well, showing that my own speakers are also good on speech.
The BBC will have to change drastically if it is to justify its position of receiving its funds by compulsory licence fee, which at the moment seems to go largely towards paying excessive salaries to 'celebrities', rather than actual content of programmes..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Russell_B
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 5

Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #12 - Feb 19th, 2016, 9:39am
 
There are other factors to consider with this problem.
Most TV news uses lavalier electret condenser mics, and these have a mid range response boost. But worse, their positioning is very compromising of that performance because they are often placed under the chin, and so are off the axis of the vocal top emitted from the mouth. Ridiculously this is made worse still by they being often directed downwards so that the mic's. treble polar response is directed at the contributor's lap.
The bandwidth of the telephone was chosen a long time ago to give a maximum intelligibility, and is 300Hz - 3400Hz which is commercial speech bandwidth.
I would guess that most TV viewers do not have Hi end sound equipment, and use the usual small speakers on the TV, and this may slightlyl ameliorate the difficulty because of their reduced bass response.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
WG
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 352
Hitchin
Gender: male
Re: Mumble mumble-BUT -Night porter--excellent
Reply #13 - Feb 29th, 2016, 9:44am
 
If I may add another post -the sound quality of the recent Night Porter -sundays BBC1 is excellent-proving it IS possible to get it right all of the time?
Back to top
 

Mr Playlist
 
IP Logged
 
WG
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 352
Hitchin
Gender: male
Re: Mumble mumble
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2016, 10:07am
 
Re MY POST above-this of course should read NIGHT MANAGER!
Back to top
 

Mr Playlist
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print