Forum for former BBC staff

Forum for former BBC staff
http://www.ex-bbc.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl >> News and Comment >> Monitoring of TV sound http://www.ex-bbc.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1426072277 Message started by Paul_L on Mar 11^th, 2015, 11:12am

Title: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Paul_L on Mar 11^th, 2015, 11:12am

Does anyone else find the need to continually alter the TV sound volume, especially at program junctions?

In my day there was a presentation suite, where picture and sound output was monitored and could be adjusted if necessary.

Has the Digital age overlooked this requirement?
If there is still a presentation department, why does it allow pre-recorded material to go to air apparently un-monitored?

I feel saddened by the way the system is deteriorating. :(

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Annual Increment on Mar 11^th, 2015, 2:21pm

There are 2 occasions when I have significantly noticed this.

1) London studios seem to have different levels than Regional. EG-Opt ins and opt outs never seem to be the same level.
2) The music "stings" on BBC1's Watchdog-- are totally deafening in comparison to the main sound output.

Are Peak Programme Meters used these days I wonder--because if so, then human operational error is to be blamed.

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Amigo on Mar 11^th, 2015, 2:49pm

In the "For Those Of Sound Mind" section of this site we have been having a long discussion about this long-standing situation.

PPMs are no longer good enough!

They measure in Lufs...

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r128.pdf

Loudness is VERY IMPORTANT (so don't shout!).

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Roundabout on Mar 11^th, 2015, 2:58pm

It does seem so sad that after all the fuss and explanations/excuses we seem to be no further forward with this problem. It still seems clear that no-one on high watches the output or there is as suggested still no-one appointed to be in operational control of audio output.

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by AndrewL on Mar 11^th, 2015, 4:30pm

When I trained as an SM, the PPM was to ensure the technical requirements of the broadcast chain were met - but balancing (a word probably not much used these days!) was by ear.

There were strict rules about (for example) musical instruments exhibiting sharp transients needing to peak lower on a PPM.

These days, there is so much compression everything sounds load...until you come across something with little/less compression - and then you turn up the volume, only to leap out of your chair to turn down the next ad break/trailer!

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Annual Increment on Mar 12^th, 2015, 9:25am

Ah compressors!...those lovely things where you could push massively over-modulated sound( jingles, The Who singles) and it just sounded like a pirate radio station to no harmful result
Meanwhile- if I recall both at BH and at Bush- It was considered an "SM error" if the control room logged your studio for over-peaking on the PPM.At the very least you got a snooty phone call"-did you know you're peaking to 7-you could put the transmitters off the air!")

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Paul_L on Mar 12^th, 2015, 12:06pm

Thanks to all who noticed my rant.
Can we ever get to a satisfactory solution to this problem?

"Presentation" appears to automated these days, with little or no human influence...computers are good for some things, but garbage in equals garbage out, so should the quality of the original material be questioned?

We have had the "mumblers" complained about before, but has anything really been done to ensure that the sound quality of productions is 'Fit for purpose?'

What a shame to see/hear a once well oiled machine falling apart and just left to rust!

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by chris west on Mar 13^th, 2015, 2:00pm

Oooh mate, try listening to Spanish TV: starts at very loud, and rises rapidly to hysterical. And that's just the news. Don't get me on the picture editing......

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 15^th, 2015, 6:15pm

This has been discussed on many fora! The BBC will send you a snooty reply to a complaint suggesting it's either your ears or TV sound settings.
There was a study, on whose committee sat a very well respected member of Pebble Mill audio staff. This made many recommendations, and found that sound levels were all over the place.

There is a code of practice for sound, which the indie meeja folk regularly ignore. And the thread mentioned lists the EBU new noise meter, which is supposed to be better than the PPM.

Me, I blame the compressor, the modern need to not have silence, the ipod deafened production types and the sheer ignorance of how to make a good programme. And the sheer refusal of the indie's to follow the basic tenant of the code which is to get someone not involved with the edit to listen in a domestic type environment.

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Paul_L on Mar 16^th, 2015, 11:12am

Thanks for that information Richard.
Clearly Aunty does not seem bothered by the fact that 99.99% of the 'Listeners' are not 'media-folk', but are the people who pay the licence fees (and staff salaries).

To suggest that the listener either has poor hearing or badly adjusted equipment is farcical; If anyone has poor hearing it surely is the 'Boom Bang a Bang brigade', who also lack the ability to do their jobs to a professional standard.

Arrgh! It's a pity that we can't change providers!

Title: Re: Monitoring of TV sound
Post by Dickie Mint on Mar 16^th, 2015, 6:00pm

Complain in the first instance. Every complaint goes on the report list. It seems the beeb nowadays only takes action if there are lots of complaints.
Too many viewers just put up with it.

Maybe the beeb should require errant producers to go and read the BBC Academy Sound pages!